We continue our theme on race and ADHD as we welcome men’s mental health advocate John Hazelwood to Translating ADHD. A nuclear engineer by day, in his spare time John advocates for men’s mental health and runs a 13,000 member support group for men with fellow advocate and ADHD coach Marc Almodovar (a PoC Voices guest in episode 136). In this episode, John speaks about his own challenges growing up as a Black man with ADHD in a community wary of mental health issues. John shares how he was rejected inside and outside his community and how he turned his own experience of relentless bullying and struggle into his own mission – to address the need for representation, advocacy, education and support for men of color.
John relays the specific challenges facing Black men who struggle with ADHD – the lack of representation in mental health services, the stigma of sharing emotions and the weight of generational oppression. John shares how the education system punishes rather than supports young Black men. Through the conversation, though, John conveys a message of resilience and hope and that real change is possible. The goal to ‘sit and listen with an open mind’ is realistic and attainable.
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Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00] Shelly: Hi, I’m Shelly, [00:00:01] Cam: And I’m Cam. [00:00:02] Shelly: and this is Translating ADHD. Quick reminder before we introduce today’s guest, our next group coaching class is open for registration. Agency begins Tuesday, January 17th at 8:30 PM Eastern. For pricing information and to apply for the course, visit the website translatingadhd.com and click on the group coaching link. So today, Cam and I are really excited to have John Hazelwood with us. John, why don’t you start by telling everybody a little bit about who you are and what you do. [00:00:32] John: Well, thank you guys for having me. This is a wonderful opportunity. Anytime we can just have a space to speak freely and to be safe while speaking and knowing that people are gonna listen. Absolutely appreciate it. So little bit about me. I’m 33. I’m a mental health advocate. Not so much of your stereotypical professional. I don’t have a degree in anything that’s in mental health. As a matter of fact, I work as a mechanical nuclear engineer by day for trade. With ADHD, you know, we’re jack of all trades as far as things that we know how to do.So I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 21 coming outta school. I wish in college, I had more of an understanding forward because I definitely struggled. So I did the neuropsych evaluation, was diagnosed with ADHD and attentive type. Started on Adderall a very high dose for some reason. And I hated what it did to my body. The heart palpitations, the constant sweating, the body temperature being up, the not eating – it got to the point where I took myself cold turkey off the medication and went from, say, age 23 up until age 30 unmedicated.
Before Covid, I began therapy again. And when we’re going through trauma and we’re understanding how our mind works, ADHD came back up and ever since then, I wanted to see representation. Was looking at ADHD as a whole and exactly what is it. Are there men out there? Are there men that look like me? And the resources were wonderful, but I didn’t see me, I didn’t see someone who is black. Being so open and vulnerable about it. And a lot of the times I felt alone. I felt like I was in my own mental prison, like you’re mentally incarcerated. And I just wanted to feel a sense of belonging and then having understanding to how my mind functions, and then also healthy ways to cope with it.
And so this is why I’ve been advocating ever since. I am a co-founder of the men’s ADHD support group with Markova, and we’re up to about 13,000 members now, and we are shifting towards going nonprofit, so I’m really excited about that. And with that, I will be starting a YouTube series too, and public expecting events.
[00:02:44] Shelly: Yeah, so engineer by day advocate in your free time because you wanted to see someone who looked like you. And that person did not exist. So let’s dive right in and talk about why is it important to have black male representation in the realm of ADHD? [00:03:03] John: Black representation in the mental health community is just needed overall. Especially being a black male, you know, historically, you think about, you know, just the black household, a lot of broken homes are there statistically you don’t really see the father around.And then you have a lot of this narrative where the mother is both the father and the mother, but there are certain things that, you know, she’s not going to be able to pass on that a male is responsible for. And so then when you added mental health to it, and then you look at ADHD, it’s just like, man, where do we go?
It’s already hard enough for us to express our emotions without being judged. It’s already hard enough for us to put words to our emotions and to be vulnerable and to know being vulnerable doesn’t mean that, hey, I’m under attack, or that I’m less than. Where there’s just like, oh, you gotta be strong for A, B, and C. You can’t be looking like you’re weak. And then you have like all these toxic masculinity traits with it, all of that together. You don’t really feel like a sense of safety.
As a matter of fact, we were talking about what does it mean to feel safe. It’s like the last time any of us truly knew what it was like to feel safe was when you’re inside the womb. Because when you’re inside your mother’s womb, you’re closest to her, your heartbeats sync, she’s there, you’re protected. You don’t even have to use any of your senses.
But when you get out into the open world, there’s a sudden rush of everything that kind of hits you for the first time, and then you start to learn through history. Your back is already against the wall, and that’s not the way to. . And so we need that. And when it came to ADHD, I will look at tons of resources and videos about it. There’s not many black men. There were more black women that were there, but that was still a rarity. And I just want to see it from, hey, my background, my experience. It’s something about that connection that just makes you feel accepted that’s there.
[00:04:50] Shelly: Can you say more about not being able to be vulnerable or share emotions as a black man? [00:04:56] John: Ooh. That was something that I’ve had to learn how to work through. Being vulnerable encompasses honesty, transparency, being able to put words to your emotions, like actually feeling them. You’re not realizing being in tune with your emotions is being human. But a lot of the times you’ve been programmed to not feel that way. You don’t wanna look like you’re weak. Like if I sat down and cry, it’s like, oh, you need to like toughen up. What are you crying for? I give you something to cry about. Oh, you’re weak. Or you’re a girl, you’re sister, you’re this, you’re that.And you get picked on about it. I grew up in a home where I had both my mother and father here, but when they had their own struggles and they were constantly battling head to head, my voice was drowned out by their. So it was almost like you cry out for help, but if what you had to say did not correlate to their problems or wasn’t conducive to anything that made them better, you didn’t matter.
And then it’s like, where do I go in society? Nowhere. There’s nowhere to go. So society already, It’s going to think that, okay, I’m gonna expect you to communicate anger because that’s what’s been commercialized. That’s what society paints of you. And then I’m just gonna be like some that’s out there versus someone who’s smart, ands educated, that just wants to be better of a person and just wants a sense of belonging.
[00:06:09] Cam: And this speaks to the work that you and Mark are doing in the ADHD men’s group. You talk about the lack of representation out in the greater world, but can you talk a little bit about the representation that’s happening inside this group of it’s 13,000 strong. [00:06:26] John: It is by far the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen where you have males that are black, white, Latino, Hispanic, Asian, East Indian, African, you have people from Australia, from all different continents, all different countries. They’re all coming together and they’re coming forward and they’re speaking and they are being authentically themselves, it reminds me of what I felt like when I was out there looking around and I was like, dude, I have nobody to talk to about it. Because for one, ADHD gets denied by a lot of people, or it gets loosely referenced. Like, you know, people will say, oh, I can’t concentrate. I must have ADHD here.But if you’re medically diagnosed with that, you don’t look at it as a joke. As if it’s a damnation than anything. Like you’re indicted, but when you have these men coming in and they’re just like, Oh my God, I can breathe for the first time. There’s something about that. It’s like that exhale that you finally take. You feel like you’re free and we tell you, show up exactly as you are. I don’t care if you’re angry, I don’t care if you’re mad, you’re sad, or you’re confused. There is somebody for somebody in that group. And it’s wonderful. It’s so welcoming. It’s so warm, and I’m so glad that it’s finally taken off the way it needs to be.
[00:07:39] Cam: That’s awesome. And we look forward to hearing about your own work on YouTube. we know that there are mental health professionals, coaches, therapists, clinicians who listen to this podcast and they’re in a position to do something about representation there, but do something about helping the black population and helping black men with ADHD. What’s the message that you have for them? Like if there’s something you could tell them, what would it be? [00:08:09] John: The message would be to be open and be susceptible to just listening to our stories and understanding that. Being black, especially in America, comes with a lot of things behind it. I’m a firm believer that trauma is able to pass itself through the body, somehow ingrain itself inside of our DNA. I’ll give you an example. Like here in Virginia, we have a lot of like historic parts that was built off colonialism. But you know, you have your founding of the United States being here. So if I’m going out to Williamsburg, I’m looking at these plantations and these old homes that they have literally, like, preserved them and they’re frolicking out on these fields. I’m not having fun. I’m walking through here and instantly my body is like, Dude, what are you doing here? Like, my body’s like, we don’t feel safe here. And it’s like you’re laying on the grass and you’re rolling around and you’re sitting on the tree catching shade. One of my ancestors could have been hanging from that because all they wanted to do was be able to have the freedom that you did.So it’s something that’s unsettling about it and it adds another to why our mental wellness is such an important thing because we have that stacked against us where we’re now just able to exhale and actually have a voice where we’re not gonna be shunned for speaking about it and speaking about our experiences and having people actually listen to us versus if I speak, I’m gonna get stoned, I’m gonna get hung, or I’m gonna get.
Even though those are still real things that happen in our community, so it’s well overdue and I just ask that, you know, our professionals just be open, but also be patient with us because it’s a realm of understanding that I think it’s well overdue.
[00:09:49] Cam: You’re speaking this theme of lived experience right now, or your context matters, and you’re really speaking to that in a way that Shelly and I could not possibly speak to because that’s not our experience, and that trauma that comes through generations. And we know that, again, ADHD is this thing that kind of it is invisible – something you don’t see. You can’t see it. It’s not like a wheelchair. It tends to be elevated or exacerbated when you have another condition like trauma, right? Whether it’s a trauma that’s been in the home or generational trauma abuse chronic pain, gender, race. And this is why we wanted to bring awareness to it. [00:10:33] John: Yeah, it’s like, I’ll give you another example, being a kid. my mom recently revealed to me that I was tested for ADHD as a child, but I never knew it. And she never said anything to me about it. And a lot of the doctors were just like, Oh, well I think he’s gonna be better, like once he gets outta school.But I didn’t realize that I was being pulled outta class to be tested based off of my learning abilities where, you know, I didn’t read necessarily. you know, my reading was great, but it was like, it took me a little bit to catch on or how I organized and did things was just a little different. And so then when you go through middle school and to high school, where I’m in honors and AP courses, I don’t see a lot of black kids.
So I’m getting teased not only by the black kids, But I’m getting teased by white kids on, Oh, well why don’t you get this as quick as what we do? Or, Oh, I don’t understand why this is so hard for you. Then you go to the black kids, Oh, where you think, you know you’re better than us. Or, you know, you think just because you’re in these smart classes, you forgot where you came from.
Why do you talk like this? Why do you dress like that? I got bullied a lot, and especially in high school, I was even told I wasn’t black because my dad lived with me and I knew who he was. And so then I noticed in high school that, you know, for me to learn, I do better with like audio books and like visual representation versus sitting down holding a book.
I became insecure about it because I read at a phenomenal level, but I can’t sit down quietly and look at a book and just enjoy it. I can’t because there’s mind chatter. And so I remember being in class in high. Suffering during study time because I’m like, Dude, it’s taking me a little bit of extra time, but y’all are teasing me because I’m a little different.
But at the same time, I’m not even being accepted by a lot of my own peers that look exactly like me. So you feel lost and there’s no sense of belonging. It wasn’t until college Where, I found more people that were like me, but still going through the engineering program. There’s not a lot of black kids in that.
It’s a lot of foreigners and a lot of the foreign professors that I had would literally make fun of a lot of us Americans. I don’t understand why you guys don’t perform as well on your exams. Like, we’ve already had three degrees by this time, so what’s your problem? And. When you’re ashamed like that, you’re already ashamed of feeling as if you are like mentally handicapped.
You’re not gonna ask for help. You’re reluctant because why am I gonna sit there? I’m already feeling like crap internally if I come to you, I’m not trying to add more pressure to that. like my baggage is already full, so why do I need to add another carry on with me? Like, I don’t need that. And so I struggled and if I would’ve had access to the resources I had now, instead of coming out with a two nine GPA, I would’ve been close to a 4.0 because I would’ve had the correct medication, but not just medication, but I would’ve had the correct tools to succeed.
[00:13:25] Cam: But you’re still a mechanical nuclear engineer, [00:13:30] John: Well, it’s one of those things where it’s like trauma will make you not present. Trauma will steal your grace or enjoy away from you because you’ll have these accomplishments, but because you deal with so much. Baggage, so much turmoil that she’s been through that outweighs the good things.And so you constantly feel like you’re constantly fighting. Like you can’t just like relax your shoulders for once and just take a deep breath and just be like, you know what? I belong here. And it took a long time. And I think as we become more vocal, it’s making vulnerability much more acceptable.
[00:14:08] Shelly: The cool thing about this series on your context matters and bringing in voices like yours is we can see a lot of parallels to our experiences, right? Every one of my clients has some amount of trauma from school. Regardless of gender or race on the podcast, we call that the one down perspective, [00:14:29] John: Ooh, I like [00:14:30] Shelly: Yeah. Right. With ADHD, you kind of develop this one down perspective you’re always making up for, but listeners listen to how that intersects with John’s unique experience as a black man being bullied. Not just the white kids, but the black kids too. And that’s not the first time I’d heard that story. I had a client who was a black man who told me a very similar story about his school experience. He wasn’t black enough for the black kids and he didn’t fit in with the white kids. And so he was bullied from both sides. That’s traumatic. And in your case, you’re being bullied for ADHD traits. [00:15:08] John: And a lot of people don’t realize ADHD is so much more than just focus. There’s the emotional dysregulation. We struggle with it. there’s the comorbidities that are there. So you can have ADHD, but you can still possess bipolar one or two traits. You could suffer with B p D. You can suffer with rejections.It’s typically dysphoria you can deal with a lot of it. It’s all one blanket. And. It’s like the label is great, but at some points you want to just exist beyond a label. It’s like, Okay, I’m adhd, but maybe I just see the world from a different lens. That’s it. because there’s a lot of great things that comes along with living on the right side of our brain, like our write planes responsible for that imagination.
It’s responsible for that creativity versus when you try to cross the plane over to the left side where there’s more rationality, it’s like living inside of a closed box. We’re born outside the box, so how the heck are we supposed to conform when our imagination is all over the place? It’s tough.
[00:16:08] Shelly: John, let’s kind of shift here and talk about what challenges you see uniquely face black men with ADHD. [00:16:17] John: Oh man. The biggest one, as I said before, it is the representation. It is also not feeling like you’re crazy. I have this hashtag men heel too, and you know, You think when you’re a man, we’re built of both masculine and feminine energy. They’re completely interchangeable, but when you know your emotions are more tied to your femin side, the thing is that you’re taught for such a long time, Oh, well, why you being a girl?Why you not so hard body? Or why you not tough enough? Why are you crying? Oh, why do you need to express yourself like that? You need to just get over it or. The one phrase that I’ve heard so much throughout my life, and I’ve actually took a poll from a lot of people, Oh, you’ll be all right when I hear that’s triggering, because how you gonna tell me I’m gonna be all right?
And you’re not even listening to what I had to say? You’re not even comforting. You’re just kind of minimizing what I’m going through. a lot of that because a black man, you know, ADHD or not just trying to. It sounds like it’s crazy. It’s like, Whoa, y’all are really doing that. It’s like, pause.
Hold the phone a second. I’m human just like you. Who the hell told you that you’re my creator. What told you that you had some sort of like, governing body over my mind and tell me how it’s supposed to function. That’s not right. That’s not life. I don’t want to survive every single day.
I want to live and thrive. Drowning every day is not the way to evolve. It’s like just being held down by like gravity, on top of gravity, like times a thousand. wants that.
[00:17:47] Shelly: So, who are these people saying, Are you really doing that? Like, where’s that coming from? Is that within the black community? Outside of the black community? Both? [00:17:55] John: You will be shocked. It is both. I had one post and it was one of my first memes. I found like this random meme on like ADHD and then just generational trauma and it broke 2.6 million. Likes on it. And so I saw this huge surge of people in the comments commenting on it, and you would be so surprised at the things that people have to say about mental health.You’ll get a lot of these woke warriors that. come up with the conspiracy theories where it’s just like, Oh, you not adhd. That’s just a label that the white man placed on you just so you can’t get to where you need to be in reality, versus accepting who you are. I’m like, Yeah, that might be some truth, but who are you to tell me that I’m not telling you to solve my problem, I’m just asking you to sit, listen, and have an open mind to understand us.
Yes, we get the labels. Yes, we get that. There’s all these variable. From history that plays into it. But you, can’t minimize our experiences up here. just like you said before, it’s a silent battle. So it’s like, unless I’m crying, unless I’m acting out, you’re never gonna know that I’m dealing with it.
[00:19:04] Cam: I’m just sort of wondering about the. skepticism or like, what’s the fear of mental health in the black community? Is that a fair question? Cause it sounds like a fear. [00:19:13] John: It is definitely a fear. when you address your mental health. The second you get a label, you’re already shunned. [00:19:18] Cam: John, you talking about being vulnerable, talking about. You know, mental health and this challenge to that. And I’m interested in emotions and sort of how we can have these responses, fear responses. I’m just hearing kind of like a fear response to discussing mental health, a fear response to being vulnerable, to sharing how you feel and sharing your emotions. And can you say more about that, [00:19:43] John: It starts from my childhood. It starts from our environment. Talking about mental health and expressing feelings was something that was not normalized, and when you did, there was a crazy label. There was a like, you’re mentally ill versus okay, there might be something that’s there – let’s go ahead and explore it. There’s these labels that get put onto it and it’s just like, Oh, well if you get put on medication, you’re also looked bit crazy. And when you deal with that, you already have the fear to speak your mind.And then when you’re living in a society where there’s all of these stigmas that are there, it’s just like, I’m damned if I do, I’m damned if I don’t. So it’s like, I might as well go ahead and suffer in silence, and the only time somebody wants to make it apparent is if I act out and either one hurt myself, kill myself, hurt somebody else while acting out, then everybody wants to make it a topic. It’s like, why can’t it be something that can be normalized in everybody’s topic like, You know, everybody’s talking points or let’s say like in school you learn about how to deal with emotions, how to identify ’em, how to regulate them, how to express them.
I wish I had those things. I wish I had those tools. being able to speak about it is almost like being able to hug somebody and just fall into like their arms because you feel safe. You can just let that weight off your shoulder, It’s just, you know, you care about this external validation that’s there because it’s created outta fear and it’s not supposed to be that way.
Like, why do I have to fear being human? Why am I being punished for something I never asked for? The thing is that these are the cards of life that I was dealt with. Like they’re dealt, but it’s like I had no choice, but I have a choice. on how I proceed through this life and what I do with it.
So should you knock me down for wanting to take control? No, you shouldn’t. You should feel proud of me for it, but you don’t have a lot of people growing up telling you, Oh, that’s such a great thing. A lot of the times too, in the black household, there was no division between therapy and the church.
You got a problem. Go pray. That’s it. I don’t need a counselor. I don’t need to see no doctor. I got Jesus. I got, you know, I got my Lord and saving grace. I’m gonna pray about it. Take my ties and offer and I’m gonna be good. No you’re not. You’re not addressing a problem. You can have Jesus and still go to therapy.
[00:21:58] Shelly: John, in our last few minutes here, I wanna come back to some of the other ways that you were describing before we started recording that black men are underserved by the medical community, by schools when it comes to ADHD. [00:22:13] John: Well, I remember I read this one statistic that in a lot of underprivileged cities where kids really don’t have access to, you know, great educational resources, you’ve had cases where in the black community. A lot of these kids were given Ritalin or Adderall in order for them to perform better in standardized testing.And when you do that, you were giving more money to be funded in towards a school It’s something not okay about that, where you’re thinking about, okay, this child might not even be ADHD whatsoever, and you’re introducing them to something that is very addicting. I mean, you see people sell it all the time, like on college campuses where it’s like, Hey, you got Adderall, or I got this for 20. Like, that’s not okay. You’re not addressing the problem. All you’re doing is creating another problem. It, it literally hurts. Like sometimes like when I think about it and I process it, I’m like, Dang. Like there’s some black kid out there right now that is struggling mentally dealing with ADHD or whatever they have, and they don’t have proper resources to it. It’s so uncoming.
[00:23:15] Shelly: We were talking to Inger Shaye last week, and she was briefly talking about her son and how much more advocacy work she has to do as a black mother to get her son help because the school wanted to label him as a behavior problem, not address and support his ADHD. [00:23:36] John: Well, a big thing too is that, let’s look at the nineties, for example. Mental health was a thing in the nineties, but you look at your diagnostic tools, which you have the DSM five, when you look at it and you look at the testing pool, do you really see a lot of African Americans in that testing pool?It’s actually been a problem that’s being addressed now where a lot of black people are like, Look, some of these diagnosis that you come up with or these mental illnesses that you’re diagnosing people with. How is that fully capturing who I am? Does that capture the full black experiences?
Does it capture my DNA? Does it capture my history? Does it capture everything that makes me and who I am now? So I’m questioning it. And so then you start realizing, yes, there is a lot of misdiagnoses out here and it comes from the quality of professionals that we have out there and the services that are provided, because I’m not gonna lie, one of the things in my community, I used to hear about cuz half sister suffered with schizoaffective disorder and you would see literally where there’s a lot of these kids fresh outta school that literally went into mental health because it was something that was easy to get through in school.
So you’re looking at their quality of work, they’re just there to collect a check. They don’t give a darn about.
[00:24:46] Shelly: John, right before we got on to start recording today [00:24:49] John: Mm-hmm. [00:24:50] Shelly: for a completely different reason, I was reading an article with a statistic that blew my mind. And that is that black people receive lower quality healthcare than white people, even when factors like age, income, insurance status and severity of conditions are comparable. So institutionally, medicine lets black people down across the board. [00:25:13] John: It’s been letting us down since it’s hu Ski experimentation. Then you look at the crack epidemic and how that came in where you had freebase from cocaine and it literally ruined black families. Like, If cocaine and crack never made it to the black community, how many people in their families would be here now? And the long lasting effects of that. And even some of the help that’s now some of like the opioid addiction, a lot of the representatives are US black folks. [00:25:37] Cam: Yeah. John, we’ve really enjoyed speaking with you and yet here you are overcoming challenge and doing what you do. And would you take us out with what inspires you? what has you get up every day and be that advocate? [00:25:54] John: Every day that I wake up. I get it from Alex Tucson from Peloton. Cuz I love doing his bike rides and he always asks the question, Are you going to evolve or repeat? How am I ever going to elevate myself in life if I’m constantly repeating the same behaviors of yesterday? And we know life is uncomfortable, but those are the times in which there’s that rich evolution that’s there where you can overcome that adversity, where, you know, you have to show that resilience that gets me going because me improving, I know that I have the tools to pass it on to someone else because I know that there’s someone else that looks exactly like me, so I have to pay it forward because we’re not out of the water.Like as I said before, surviving. I don’t want my head just above the water. I want my whole body risen up out that water and setting up top like a mountain where I can look over everything and have nothing holding me down. I’m in the clouds, I’m elevated. I wanna see that with our men.
And one of my favorite hip hop artists, Nipsey Hustle before he passed away. He was big on that. And that’s where I get inspired and power motivate from because that was a part of his marathon. So I feel my connection to his music. The least I can do as a fan is to continue to elevate myself and to help my black community as well too.
[00:27:07] Shelly: You are so inspiring, and I could honestly spend so much more time with you talking about all of this and many other subjects. You’re such an interesting human and such an inspiring person. I had no idea until today that your advocacy work was not your full-time job and that you in fact had an entire other career. So really a testament to the fact that you’re paying it forward.So what we’ve been doing, rather than our typical outro. So stick around listeners. Rather than promoting our stuff, we wanna promote your stuff. You gave your time today to share your lived experience, to share your context. Where can our listeners find your work and what you’re doing?
[00:27:49] John: A lot of social media platforms I use are Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat here and there. But mainly you can find me on Instagram @j0n_j0n, and those are zeros when you spell that out. And then also on Twitter, which would be John, John 89. And I’m unfiltered and I speak my mind.And then also I provide a lot of just inspirational context for people to just think about and also being a co-founder of the Men’s ADHD support group. I am active on their Facebook page and will be active on a lot more of our ventures that are coming up as far as the public speaking, the videos, and then more of the podcast content, and which Mark and I are resurrecting our ADHD men’s podcast as well too, because we used to put that out a lot. Just life. Life be life – let’s just put it that way.
[00:28:42] Shelly: And two ADHD people working together have ADHD too, right? [00:28:46] John: Mm. [00:28:47] Shelly: Is that men’s group open to any man with ADHD that wants to. [00:28:52] John: If you are a man with adhd, if you identify with that, if you’re autistic, we do not care if you mentally don’t feel like you belong. You have a home here with us because we have over 13,000 men that are willing to welcome you where LGBTQ Q i a plus. Friendly as well too. We cater to. Wild array of just all ethnicities and everyone doesn’t even see yourselves for color.We see each other for how beautiful our minds are, and all we want to do is to make you feel comfortable. We want to have you feel seen and you get that help and healing that you need, and we have access to tons of resources.
[00:29:32] Cam: That’s. [00:29:33] Shelly: Yeah, links to all of John’s socials and to the men’s group will be in the show notes. So listeners, if you’re looking for those, that’s where you will find them. John, thank you again for being with us, and until next week, I’m Shelly [00:29:49] Cam: And I’m Cam. [00:29:50] Shelly: and this was the Translating ADHD podcast. Thanks for listening.
