In this episode of Translating ADHD, Ash and Dusty explore the intricate relationship between ADHD and creativity. They discuss the unique challenges faced by creative individuals with ADHD, such as analysis paralysis, perfectionism, and the overwhelming number of ideas that can hinder progress. The conversation emphasizes the importance of creating a supportive environment and allowing oneself the freedom to be bored, as both can foster creative thought. By sharing personal experiences and strategies, the hosts encourage listeners to embrace their creative pursuits without the weight of expectations or perfectionism.
The episode also highlights the significance of self-acceptance in the creative process. Dusty shares her journey of overcoming imposter syndrome in music by recognizing her strengths as a rhythm guitarist, while Ash illustrates how redefining success through choice can empower clients to engage creatively. Ultimately, the hosts invite listeners to reassess their limiting beliefs about creativity and consider how everyday actions can be seen as creative expressions, urging them to “just touch the clay” in their own lives.
Episode links + resources:
For more of the Translating ADHD podcast:
- Episode Transcripts: visit TranslatingADHD.com and click on the episode
- Follow us on Twitter: @TranslatingADHD
- Visit the Website: TranslatingADHD.com
Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00] Ash: Hi, I’m Ash. [00:00:02] Dusty: And I’m Dusty. [00:00:03] Ash: And this is Translating ADHD. We’ve got a few announcements today. The first one is a big one. Dusty and I have decided to keep this going. So Dusty is now the new permanent or at least semi-permanent for a time co-host of translating ADHD. Woo hoo. [00:00:22] Dusty: Yay! [00:00:24] Ash: Super excited about that. We’re just, the more we record together, the more we realize that we have more to say. Much like when Cam and I started, the show episodes sort of, and topics sort of came out of what we’re already doing. We’re very much having that experience here and now.So we decided that we’ve got more than 12 episodes here. So who knows how long that’ll go, but we’re going to keep doing it as long as it makes sense for both of us to keep doing it.
[00:00:48] Dusty: Exactly. [00:00:49] Ash: Couple of other things. I am taking new clients. So if you’ve been looking for a coach, if you’ve in particular been wanting to coach with me, I do not have a wait list right now. So now is a great time to reach out and inquire about coaching.And I have a couple of group coaching offerings coming up in the new year. Purpose begins January 13th. Project X begins January 14th. So that’s Mondays and Tuesdays respectively. They both meet at 8 30 PM Eastern. For more information, pricing, and to apply for those courses, visit the website, TranslatingADHD.com and click on the group coaching tab.
So Dusty, you want to tell our listeners what it is we’re talking about today?
[00:01:28] Dusty: Today we’re talking about ADHD and creativity. [00:01:32] Ash: Ooh, so our listeners might be wondering how is creativity a problem with ADHD? [00:01:39] Dusty: Feel like if you’re a creative person or an artist, whether for your job or your hobby you’ll be like, oh my god, like, I the, I feel like they might know already. They’re like, oh no, they’re coming for me. [00:01:50] Ash: Oh no, yeah, the creatives really struggle, and you wouldn’t ADHD brain has so much to offer in terms of creativity, but it also throws up a lot of challenges. [00:02:02] Dusty: I feel like there’s so many different intersections here where people struggle. Like with clients and also for myself personally, because I’m a musician, like, I see a lot of issues around so, like, analysis paralysis, right?Having too many ideas. Feeling like just because you’ve had a creative idea and you get started on it, okay, now you’re committed to it. And now there’s this like sense of dread that comes in. So instead of like a creative project being fun, it ends up being like this, like a bottleneck stopping point where you feel like beholden and you can’t finish it, or maybe you don’t even get started because you’ve got too many ideas and you don’t know which one to do.
There’s also like the way that ADHD disorganization and intolerance to boredom comes in here, because if your space is really messy or cluttered, and then you get the vibe to paint or something, but before you can paint, you have to like, find your paints. And then you have to like, dig out a space to like, be able to set up your painting stuff on the table.
And you have to like, clean your brushes because your brushes are dirty and your canvases are like, in this big pile of crap. And so you don’t feel like doing all that cleaning and setup. You feel like being creative now. And if you can get yourself to do all that digging out and setting up, by the time that’s all done, you’re out of spoons, right? So having the space, you know, set up.
And then also the time. Asher, I was telling you before, I once saw John Cleese talking about creativity, and he was talking about how, like, in order for someone to be creative, like, you need time. Like, you can’t be busy. You can’t be rushing. You basically need to let yourself be bored because that’s where creativity is born.
And so many of us are like, completely intolerant to boredom. We fill up all our days and if we have a spare minute, we’re like on our phones, on our devices, right? We don’t want to be unoccupied for even one second because that feels painful. But those are also like the conditions for you to allow yourself to be creative, right?
And then beyond that, there’s practicing. So depending on what you’re, you know, your chosen craft is. And if you want to get better at it as a musician, as a, an artist, right, a dancer, almost anything you have to put in the time and the practice before you can be good at it. You have to be bad at it.
Kind of like how Cam talks about, right? Like, you got to be a white belt before you can be a black belt. And so making that time to practice and struggle when and practice the rudiments, the foundations of whatever it is, the things that are boring. If you can’t get yourself to do that, you’re not going to see yourself improve, and then you’re going to have all this like imposter syndrome or like frustration tolerance about not being able to execute at the level you want to execute.
Like, I just feel like there’s so much going on there.
[00:04:30] Ash: Absolutely. So let’s break those down and take them one at a time. So the first thing we’re talking about is supportive environment, and that can be a tricky wicket unto itself, right? Because perfectionism can absolutely come in there, that the environment needs to be just so, in order to be able to do the thing.I had a client who was really struggling with this. Her home office was just not where she wanted it to be. And it felt like this massive barrier towards any sort of creative time. And the solution ended up being just an environment change, right? Meaning rather than tackling this massive project and making it just so, kind of breaking it down to what do I actually need in order to be able to create right now, today. Does it have to be in this particular space or can I set this space aside as a project that has my attention, but also find some ways to be creative in the here and now.
[00:05:38] Dusty: Yeah it’s funny how like a, just a small change to the environment can make a big difference because of that, like, you know, when you’re in the, when the mood hits, you’re in the mood, right? It’s like anything with ADHD, like, oh, my God I’ve suddenly unlocked the potential to do whatever I have to do it right now.For me, I have a jam space in my basement, and that’s where I go to practice with my band. And I’ve been playing rhythm guitar for like many years, like probably 14 years and no, 24 years. I’ve been playing guitar for 24 years.
[00:06:05] Ash: The math problems from last episode continue. [00:06:08] Dusty: But I never really did like lead guitar, and I was always very intimidated because I had a real lack of practice. I didn’t have any kind of a practice, and I started taking lessons, and this guy who was giving me lessons was showing me how you can go on YouTube and there’s these like backing tracks and you can just like practice playing like lead guitar.And I thought that was such a great idea, and then I never did it. And I realized why is like, okay, I’m not going to go downstairs, plug in my amp, set up my guitar, and then stand around in the basement by myself doing this. Where am I likely to watch YouTube on the TV in my living room? So I went out and I bought a very small practice amp, and I started keeping the amp and the guitar just off to the side in the living room, so that when I had a minute to sit down, I could easily go on YouTube and just right there, right, like, like, lower the barrier. If it’s in the living room. I can actually do it, right? And that helped a lot.
[00:06:58] Ash: So now let’s talk about that next piece, allowing yourself to be bored. I have a client who is very much a hyperactive type who hates to be bored, who is always busy. And we’ve been playing around with this term of free brain time. And it was something I actually introduced to him because it was something I was recognizing in myself, that instead of putting on a TV show or a podcast or something that I had to actively attend to, if I’m doing laundry or picking up my house, that’s a great opportunity to put on something that’s a little more background noise for me. Hilariously enough, it’s the Stardew Valley soundtrack. It’s, if you’ve ever played that game, it’s such a great soundtrack for like grinding out life. [00:07:44] Dusty: It makes sense because there’s studies that show that video game music promotes focus. [00:07:49] Ash: Interesting. I didn’t know that. I just really love the soundtrack and happened to buy it on CD, and that’s become my go to because there, there are no words. There’s nothing distracting. And so the opportunity then becomes to just let my mind wander a bit.Coupled with free brain time, I also like the concept of face time with no attachment to where that’s coming from. So face time with other creatives. This is something that Cam and I used to expressly make time for, especially annually at the CHADD conference. We would always schedule time, an evening where just the two of us would hang out, but that we had no particular agenda.
We weren’t talking about the business side of Translating ADHD. We weren’t talking about anything in particular. It was just an opportunity to have conversation and let that go where it might go. And you’re absolutely right. If we’re talking about. never letting our brains have those moments, then there’s no opportunity for creativity. We just squash it. It’s like a candle that’s not getting enough oxygen. It’ll just go out.
[00:09:00] Dusty: Well, and like, I don’t want to sound really old, but like, I do kind of worry about the younger generations with that, because like, for me, so much of being a musician was like, I don’t want to, being an outcast and being at home in my room, like bored and alone and you know, picking up the guitar as a way to like, pass the time, and to like, express emotion and like not having anything to do now.You know, Cam talks about like the biggest signal in the room. When you don’t have anything to do, the creative thing is your brain, the ideas inside your brain and the ideas that you have are the biggest thing in the room. But with the devices now, always like on the phone, like you’re never unoccupied and I do kind of worry that like some younger people may not get the opportunity to see themselves as creative because they don’t Really know how to be like without a device.
And certainly like, you know, I struggle with that myself as like an older person, you know, regardless of the fact that I was around before Facebook, like I struggle with that even now. So yeah, it’s a huge thing.
[00:10:00] Ash: So I will throw in a counter to that actually, based on my experience with my 14-year-old, because that’s something I worry about too. And it’s something that I struggle with myself, right? The device is the easy thing. It’s easy to lose hours into that screen that are neither constructive nor productive.I’ve talked about constructive versus productive on this show before. Just a quick recap. The idea that we can get into our heads as ADHD people. If we’re not being productive, our time is not well spent. Well, I like thinking about is it productive or is it constructive? Right?
So Dusty, you’re not a working musician full-time anymore, as you were in the past, but there’s still something that gives back to you when you spend time with your art, with your music, practicing. So while it may not be quote unquote productive, it’s not getting a thing done that must be done, it’s constructive in that it gives back to you.
And I think the challenge with devices is we so often lose out on that constructive time. It’s just another barrier. But what I’m noticing with my kid that’s actually pretty cool, my kid is very into drawing, and that digital drawing in particular, and has really cultivated her own art style in the last few years and has found this community of other young artists on Discord. And there are all these really cool events that inspire different creative endeavors.
So right now, Inktober is the big one where there’s a different prompt for every day with the idea that you fulfill the prompt in a single day, good, bad, or otherwise. It’s not about it being perfect. It’s just about getting it done. And because other people are participating too, it, that becomes motivation unto itself. There’s community there.
And one that was really cool a couple of months ago was an art fight. So you draw an original character of yourself, and you’re on one of two teams and someone from the other team draws your character in their art style. And I don’t know how it was scored from there. I couldn’t quite keep up with the ins and outs of how it worked, but I know that my kid was really invested and was spending a lot of time on her art.
So I would say the two things can be true. It presents new challenges, but also maybe presents some amount of opportunity in terms of being able to connect and find community, particularly as a young person, in a way that when you’re geographically tied to a place with no connection to the broader world, as we were when we were young, you didn’t really have.
[00:12:38] Dusty: Well, yeah, that is good to hear and that’s it too, right? Like, I feel like I see so many people who are so talented, like, on TikTok. It kind of mitigates my fears because I’m like, well, if these people have time and effort to like get this good at this, maybe there’s hope for humanity.But yeah, but you need time, right? As a person with ADD, have to put in more intentional effort into, like, strategies that help you disengage from the like, mindless thing that you do if you want to engage with your own creativity.
Like, you have, you kind of have to be bored, I think, and give your brain that time to come up with something interesting. And being bored can be almost like, physically painful. So, I think, without, you know, without meaning to, I think a lot of us, like, build lives for ourselves as adults with, like, zero unoccupied time. Like, zero you know, we’re, like, you said, we’re always listening to a podcast or, like, listening to something or watching something or doing something.
It’s like, we eliminate any spare moment that our brain is not occupied because we want that stimulation and, like. Being understimulated, I think, is part of what’s going to lead to creative thought. So, yeah, it’s, you know, it’s a challenge.
[00:13:41] Ash: I’ve also found that being understimulated helps in other ways when I’m paying more attention to that, when I’m intentionally taking free brain time or quiet time, I use those terms interchangeably. I sleep better. I feel less like strung out or wiped out in a bad way at the end of the day. I engage more fully with what it is that I am doing.And so listeners, what might this look like to make it a little easier for yourself to engage? For one of my clients, it was as simple as setting out her journal with no attachment as to whether or not she wrote in it. It was just having it out, in view, in a space that she liked to journal.
For me, it’s about having choice. So, I know the thing I don’t want to do. My Achilles heel is Reddit. I can spend an insane amount of time browsing Reddit if left to my own devices, if bored enough and unable enough to direct my attention elsewhere. So it’s about a slate of options, some flexibility. So I try to always have a book that I’m reading and a couple of other things that I’m interested in pursuing at any given time. So it’s like you can do X or Y or Z. Okay. And something about being at choice in that moment versus I should do this one thing is really helpful for me.
So start to think about for you what are the specific barriers that get in the way? What is it for you that makes choosing the right path? The device or choosing the neither productive nor constructive thing. So alluring, so easy, maybe it’s habit, maybe it’s defaults. And how can you start to disrupt that for yourself? How can you start to make it easier to match that intention of engaging creatively with action?
[00:15:41] Dusty: That’s a really good idea. And for me, what I do is, like, I find that I get into that space. I hear a lot of people talk about it where they think about doing something fun, but even the fun thing, when they think about doing it, feels like, ah, I don’t want to, or like, ah, that’s going to suck, right?And so, for me I know that about myself enough that I, like, I kind of just have to push through the starting, like, whether it’s, say, like, practicing the violin, because I play violin, banjo, and guitar, like, practicing the violin, or, like, picking up the banjo, like, I know when I think about doing it, I’m like, meh, that doesn’t really feel, like, fun.
But I know that once I’m doing it, I’m actually going to enjoy it. So I’ll just, you know, I’ll be like, okay, just practice for five minutes. Right? That’s my thing. Practice for five minutes. And if it sucks, put it down. But of course, what happens once I pick it up and start practicing, I’m like, oh my God, this is so fun.
And that’s the thing too, right? Like people have different reasons for being creative. It might be your job, you know? It might be something you do for like self development or it might be something you do to like de stress and relax. And sadly, I think what happens is for many of us, it’s like, yes we lose creativity as a hobby or an outlet for something fun because it just stops feeling fun.
Maybe because of all this perfectionism you’re putting on yourself, but because sometimes with ADC there’s just that feeling like it’s not gonna be. But if you can get yourself to do it, it actually is. But we just stop choosing it, and then we go to, like you say, those other sources like the phone and stuff. And if we could get ourselves to do the creative thing, it would be like so much more restorative.
[00:17:04] Ash: Yeah, that’s back to that constructive word. So now let’s talk about the perfectionism piece. The third thing that you brought up and that you brought up again, just now, an interesting thing that I’ve noticed time and time again with my clients and with myself is getting really attached to outcome when a creative endeavor doesn’t need to be attached to outcome.It’s one thing if you do it for a living. This podcast has to be good enough, right? It doesn’t need to be perfect, but there’s a standard of good enough here because we’re putting this out there. We’re attaching our names to it as professionals. And so there’s a standard that we want to hold ourselves to here, but.
What about something that’s just for you? I had a client that was really struggling with this when it came to pottery. And honestly, the solution came ironically back to the reason that she chose pottery in the first place. So she was really struggling to engage with her hobby of pottery, even though she really enjoyed it, because of perfectionism, because of getting attached to making a particular thing or doing something a particular way before she even walked into the pottery studio.
And the more we coached about this, she started to talk about why she took up pottery in the first place. Pottery is a very finicky art. Even expert potters have pieces break in the kiln or fall apart on the wheel. It’s just part of the art form that failure is always going to be a part of the process. You are never going to get so good at pottery that you don’t have a piece that doesn’t make it to its final form. It’s always going to happen.
And so for her, it was not just detaching from outcome, but detaching all the way from outcome. Just put some clay on the wheel. Just start there. Don’t walk in with an idea of what I want to make. Just go in and put some clay on the wheel. Start there and see what happens. That’s all I have to do.
[00:19:12] Dusty: Oh, my God, it’s so funny you say that, because I have an almost identical story, just a little different. I have an ongoing coaching group that I coach, and it’s all women, and it’s all creative women. Some of some for their job. Again, just some for hobby, but it’s this core group of women, and we’ve been coaching together for quite a while and they all have different mediums.Like some of them are writers. Some of them are you know, painters and a couple of them are do ceramics. And this one person in the group, You know, we were talking about, like, what is the lowest bar you can set, you know, if you’re feeling, if you’re feeling avoidant. So she decided to set this goal for herself of just touching the clay every day.
So every day she would say, I touched the clay. And literally, if all she wanted to do was, like, just put her hand on it, that was all she would do. And then some days she would do more. So it became this simple goal. Saying in our group, touch the clay and what it came to mean, like, just do the very bare minimum.
And now I, like, sometimes I forget that not everybody gets that reference. And so when I’m coaching with clients, I’ll be like, yeah, so like, what if you just touched the clay? And then I’ll be like, oh, I have to explain what that means. But it’s like totally this thing that’s become like part of my vocabulary.
So yeah, just touch the clay. Right? Just do the, just pick up the guitar for five minutes. Play one scale, play a couple notes, like what is the barest minimum you can do to just get started?
[00:20:23] Ash: Similarly, but just a slightly different from that. I had a client who very much wanted to employ a meditation practice at the start of their day and was really struggling. And this is another thing that can get in the way of creativity is all of the other shoulds of life.So their struggle was I have this list of things I do in the morning, and I feel like I’m not allowed to meditate until they’re done, even though my schedule is very flexible. I work from home. I am completely allowed to take 5 or 10 extra minutes either before or after I do the things. But if I wait until after, I feel like I’ve already started my day, and I just, for whatever reason, can’t stop this client.
Also, interestingly, and I see this fairly often, by the way, has conflicting needs when we did values and needs of flexibility and order. And so we’re kind of grappling with that in the mix too.
And so what ended up working for this client was framing it as a question. Is today a movement day? So success no longer became about did I do the thing or not do the thing. Success became about was I at choice about whether I did or didn’t do the thing.
So really similar to touching the clay, right? If I’ve touched the clay and that’s all I want to do, there’s a choice being made there, right? Is it a movement day or is it not a movement day? I get to check that off of my list as soon as I’ve made a choice. And for that client, introducing the idea again, with that flexibility need on board, introducing the idea of choice and making that the measure of success made a massive difference.
[00:22:12] Dusty: Yeah, and you know, it’s so interesting like for me I don’t have a lot of perfectionism with my ADHD. In fact, most of the time I’m the opposite. I feel like early on I learned to compensate for perfectionism by being like an impulsive doer or chooser. Like I would just like go with my gut. I would just choose something, and I would just do something. And maybe yeah, now when I think back on it, I feel like maybe that was like a, yeah, like an adaptation.But when it came to music, I was always, it was so important to me that I was so perfectionistic about it that I think I was like in just a state of freeze about it for like so long. Like I had such bad imposter syndrome about not like knowing a lot of music and not being good enough at music that I was always kind of like coming up with these things in my head that I should do. Oh, I should listen to this band or that band.
And we were talking before we started on the podcast, like, I feel like part of this also had to do with my generation. Because CDs stopped being a thing in my early 20s, and we switched to digital music, but for many years, I didn’t have a desktop or a laptop in the like mid 2000s. And so I didn’t have like Windows Media Player or like, you know, whatever. And I didn’t, couldn’t afford like an iPod. Like I didn’t have a way to listen to digital music. And this was sort of like when YouTube was just like still very new, right?
So there were like several years where like, I didn’t have a good option to listen to music. So I sort of just forgot that music existed. But I had all this like guilt built up in my head about it. Like, you know, everyone would be like, oh, you haven’t heard of, like, this band, or you haven’t heard of that band. And so I’d make all these lists, listen to this band, listen to that band, and then lose the lists. And then, like, out of sight, out of mind.
And when I had time to listen to music, I wasn’t thinking about it, so I would do something else. And then when I didn’t have time, I’d be like, why aren’t I listening to music in my free time? So, like, this went on for years, for, like, years, where I just didn’t listen to any new music and I thought about practicing all the time, and I never actually practiced because I didn’t know how to create like structure for myself. And I didn’t want to do things that were boring. And it started getting to the point where there was like this big emotional block.
And so what ended up happening was I got to this point with like songwriting where I was like, I couldn’t write any new music because I felt like it had to be super good, and it had to be super original, and it had to be super different. And whatever I came up with, like, wasn’t good enough, but I didn’t have the skill to do what I thought I should be able to do. And that just went on for, like, years, right? Where I just, like, didn’t make music, and, like, felt like such an imposter, other than the music I was already making. And I felt like I couldn’t claim that identity.
And the only thing that changed it is when I kind of, like, switched the order, right? I was like, what if I already just started accepting that I am a guitarist, and I am a musician, and I am good enough? And like, what if the level at which I write songs Is already good enough because I could always write songs. It was very easy for me, but anything I wrote that felt easy I assumed was not a good song. Like I was like, oh, this is just this is like off the cuff. This is off the you know, I wrote this in 10 minutes ergo it cannot be good because it only took me 10 minutes, and I didn’t struggle.
So I had to like flip the script and be like what if the level at which I write songs Is already good enough, and the songs that I write are good. And I actually what if I don’t need to try any harder? Like what if I don’t need to learn anything new or like what if I don’t need to struggle? And if I write a song, and it takes me 10 minutes, what if I were to, like, legitimize that song as being a piece of art as good as, like, anything else, right?
And that’s what I had to do to, like, unlock the ability to just, like, start doing it, which, in turn, allowed me to start challenging myself. Which, in turn, finally led me to being able to, like, sit down and say, okay, I’m gonna write a song, and I’m gonna try to do things that I’ve never done before. And I’m gonna try to use structures and, like, musical you know, music theory that I don’t feel like I have a super solid grasp on. I’m going to try to like grow by writing this song.
And I did, but the thing is all the songs that I wrote that were like the super simple 10-minute ones, I would say are like just as good, if not better, but they’re different than this like other song that I put a lot of effort into. Right. And so it was like through kind of going back to this theme of acceptance, it was like through self-acceptance that I was able to like actually start embodying being like the musician and the guitarist that I wanted to be who actually plays the damn thing.
[00:26:20] Ash: Wow, if it’s not a struggle, then it’s not worthwhile or it’s not good. That’s a limiting belief I see in my clients so often, not just creatively, overall. We’re so good at discounting our strength and unique value as ADHD people that If we’re good at it and it’s not a struggle, then we must not be good at it. Everyone must be able to do this thing. It’s such a hallmark limiting belief of ADHD. And I love how you brought it up here in the context of creativity that any, anyone could write this song. I’m not good enough. If I was good enough, it would be harder. [00:27:00] Dusty: When I work with clients who this often, I see this come up at work, they will often be feeling like they’re not doing as good as their coworkers. And a lot of the times it turns out that they’re actually doing more work than their coworkers because they’re like, I feel like we have this thing. Even if you don’t, even if you’re not autistic, I feel like there’s this ADHD capacity to just take things at face value.So if people say they’re working an eight hour day, you as a person with ADD, you’re like, Oh, that must mean that I work my, do my very best those whole eight hours. When in fact, studies have shown us that like most people actually, you know, do about five hours of work in an eight hour shift.
So whenever I have a client who feels like they’re behind at work, I say to them, okay, I want you to go and talk to your non-ADHD colleagues, like go find some neurotypicals. I want you to talk to them about what they do in a day, how they do their work and like get really deep. Like ask them like, okay, how? Okay, so you get to work. How long do you answer emails for? What if you see an email that you don’t feel like you have time to answer? Like, what do you do after lunch? And like really get into the nitty gritty and ask them like what they do in a day.
And so I’ll send them out to do that, and they’ll often find that like, oh, my God, they’re like, already outperforming their colleagues. Like, they’re doing 3 times as much work as their colleagues because nobody actually ever said that that’s what needed to be done. They just like had this assumption.
And so, I feel like this can also apply creatively. When you actually really ask other people what they’re doing, because for sure there’s always going to be that guy who spends eight hours a day, like writing, and like, that’s his thing, and he loves it. Like, you can compare yourself to the best of the best, but there are like plenty of, when it comes to any kind of artistry, there are plenty of people who are creative, who don’t spend the majority of their time doing it, and who only put out, you know, one book every three years.
But you, what you always see is writers comparing themselves to the best person who puts out books every six months. And like musicians comparing themselves to the guy who sits there and like noodles for eight hours a day, right?
For me, it was so helpful. So my boyfriend’s a drummer and he’s played in a lot of bands. And something that he said to me once was like, so it was like healing balm on my soul, his preferred style of playing is a very simple style of playing, right. He doesn’t like all the fancy doodads, but he’s like very well known in our community. And he’s been in like some kind of some Canadian, like he played at the Junos. He’s like, you know, he’s been around the block a few times. And but he’s got this very simple style of playing. And he said to me, like, you know, if you want a particular style of drummer then you ask for me, right? He’s like, this is what I do. I don’t like all that fancy do that. I like a simple, straightforward rock beat. Like I like a simple, you know, there’s a style that I like.
He knows what he’s good at, and he is okay with not being like the most technical drummer, the most like fancy drummer. And this guy’s been playing drums a long time. Like he’s legit, and he’s totally fine with where he’s at with his skill level. He doesn’t feel like an imposter. He doesn’t feel less than if he’s not like mister, you know, technical metal drummer. Because that’s not what he likes.
And I was like, and here’s the thing I kept feeling like as a guitar player, I should be for the number of years that I’m playing really good at playing the lead guitar. And I’m okay at it now, but what I really like is playing the rhythm guitar. But rhythm guitar is largely considered easier. So of course I thought It’s not valuable.
And when he said that to me, I was like, wait, so like what if I just said, I’m a really good rhythm guitarist. And like, that’s my niche. Like if you need a good rhythm guitarist, you call me. And it was crazy because once I started doing that, I actually started noticing that like not every guitarist is actually good at the rhythm guitar. Like, I just took that as an assumption because it’s often the thing you learn first. No, like, not everybody has rhythm.
And when I started talking to a few other guitarists recently, they were like, oh, you know what? Like, I’m really not much of a lead guitarist. And these were like people that I just assumed were better than me at the guitar. That was the assumption. And I actually started realizing, okay, it’s not that everybody else is good at this and everybody else does this and everybody else is practicing, you know, lead guitar for three hours a day. Like maybe I’m actually already good enough and maybe I’m actually even better than some other people.
Not that it’s a competition, but like, maybe what I’m doing is, has already legitimized me as the musician that I want to be. But it was through talking to someone else and actually asking about their experience that I realized that I was like holding myself to some really ridiculous standard.
And I find that is so true so often for my clients in many fields. Like we actually just need to stop assuming what everyone else is doing, that everyone else is doing better than us and actually like ask questions.
[00:31:27] Ash: I love the idea of asking questions. And I actually kind of want to bring it back to work because here’s – on the opposite side of struggling with creativity or creative endeavor – the other thing I see with some clients is this limiting belief of I’m not creative, I’m not an artist, I’m not a musician. I’m not creative in the traditional sense.Oftentimes what I find with those clients is they are creative in other ways. I have this client – talking about your client at work and go out and figure out what your co workers are doing and what their day looks like – I have a client who just kind of did that and was really struggling with comparison with a colleague who was hired at the same time.
They’re both new at this company and in this role, and they’re a team, the two of them working together on different things. And this counterpart brings different strengths than my client, but all my client was seeing is she brings this, what am I bringing?
Well, when my client started to discover what she was bringing, there was a lot of creativity there. This client is not American. She is Dutch, but she has lived outside of the Netherlands for a number of years. She’s back in the Netherlands now, but she’s working for a company that is multinational. So her mastery of the English language, combined with her natural strength and curiosity, she wants to understand the engineering side of things, even though she’s not an engineer, because she wants the context. ADHD brains want the context.
So the combination of that natural strength and her mastery of the English language makes her an incredible liaison between engineering and business. And it’s something that she is uniquely called on to do. An area in which she is an incredibly creative problem solver. She’s got unique stuff to bring to that role.
So for those of you who have listened to this whole episode, and you’re like, this doesn’t apply to me. I’m not really an artist. I don’t really do anything quote unquote creative. Maybe rethink that limiting belief. What is it that you’re already doing that’s creative, that you could pull on, that you could foster?
And more so than that, what does it mean to be creative? Does it mean getting to be the best at something? Or does it mean touching the clay?
[00:33:52] Dusty: I’ll just add, so my last parting thought is as a person who has struggled with this a lot personally, again, I said it in the last episode, but I’ll say it again, the same structures that help with any ADHD challenge are going to apply here. If you can get over the, I shouldn’t need to, right.When I accepted that I wasn’t going to remember to listen to new music and that wasn’t going to spontaneously occur to me, I was able to start keeping a list in a place that I would remember to check. And so I have a list on my phone. Anytime I think of a music that I want to listen to, it goes into the list. And when I have time, I remember to go to the list. I don’t remember why I put that on there or where it came from, but I’ve listened to more new music in the last two years than probably in the last 20 years because I just used like a common ADHD structure.
It could be habit trackers, it could be sticker charts, it could be gamification, it could be accountability. If you can’t get yourself to practice or learn whatever skill, do it on body doubling. There’s no wrong way. If you are getting it done, then the, I shouldn’t need to because I’m an artist, so I should just spontaneously want to. If you can throw that out the window and be like, I’m not going to remember that I care about this. Let me, like, set up accountability or a sticker chart. Like, if that gets you doing it, that is what matters. Not the how.
[00:35:04] Ash: Love that and certainly find it to be true for myself. I’m trying to get back into a writing practice. And just for me, environment change is huge. There just getting out of my house away from any other life distraction is huge because now it’s just me and my writing tablet. And so there’s literally nothing else to do but stare at my phone and read it or write. And removing all the other distraction is a huge source of support there for me.So I think that’s a good place for us to wrap, Dusty. So listeners until next week, I’m Ash.
[00:35:34] Dusty: And I’m Dusty. [00:35:36] Ash: And this was the Translating ADHD podcast. Thanks for listening.
